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Julian : integral healer Myth, Fairy Tale, and Psyche in Pan's Labyrinth

Myth, Fairy Tale, and Psyche in Pan's Labyrinth

Posted on May 29th, 2007 by Julian : integral healer Julian
Myth, Fairy Tale, and Psyche in Pan's  Labyrinth

Guillermo del Toro Interview



Well, it's finally out on video and I thought it would be a good time to watch Pan's Labyrinth again and offer up the second part of my review as promised at the beginning of the year!

Go here to see my more conventional review of the movie that preceeded this piece.

Introduction

I want to talk about the basic mythic structure of Pan's Labyrinth and then relate it to Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey as well as Jungian analyst Donald Kalsched's Self Care System  from his book The Inner World of Trauma: Archetypal Defenses of The Personal Spirit.

As I alluded to in my initial review, the movie is a great entry point into discussing fairy tales like Rapunzel, myths like Eros and Psyche and other movies like The Piano, Fearless, Jacob's Ladder, The Cell, and The Fountain. It also provides an intuitive window into the myth-making function of the psyche, especially with reference to Kalsched's assertion that "When human resources are unavailable, archetypal resources will present themselves."

To start, let's look at our protagonist's name - Ofelia. Ophelia is a Shakespearean character associated with madness. She goes mad because her father has been killed by her beloved, who himself is losing his mind as his world falls apart after the unjust death of his father (whose ghost haunts him) and his mother's marriage to his uncle. In Hamlet, Ophelia is an innocent who is overcome by the trauma of circumstances beyond her control and perhaps has what we might call a sane response to an insane situation - she loses touch with an unbearable reality.

The Call and The Threshold

As the film begins we find our heroine at a crossroads, she is entering the realm of our fascist  villain, Captain Vidal. Ofelia's mother has in effect sold her soul to this evil man in order to try and win survival for herself, her daughter and the unborn son in her belly. It is later alluded to that the Captain may have had something to do with the death of Ofelia's father.

This is classic fairy tale stuff - there once was a young girl whose father was dead, her mother had married an evil king who cared only about the baby prince she carried in her womb and who was at war with the townspeople who were rebelling against his rule.

Next comes the "call to adventure" and the beginning of the bifurcation of reality into the ordinary realm and the mythic realm when Ofelia "crosses the threshold."

Having stopped on the way into the realm of the evil king Vidal, Ofelia finds a  a rock that bears a carved eye. Just off the road she finds the primitive carved face that the stone eye fits into. On returning the eye to it's rightful place, the journey is set in motion and the messenger that will call her into the adventure appears, first as an insect and then later - molding itself to fit her imagination - as a fairy.

It will be the fairy/insect/messenger that guides her to cross the threshold into the nearby abandoned stone labyrinth where she meets the Pan character - technically a Faun. He is a trickster and carries both creative and destructive energies. Part of Ofelia's journey will have to do with learning not only to disobey the external forces of power that seek to control her, but also the powerful mediator of this inner world. We are in the psyche now, and nothing is black and white....

We have the allusion with the Faun here to an ancient knowledge, instinctive, undifferentiated, of the earth, pagan, magical - an antidote to the cruel  soul-less world she has entered in the ordinary realm of external reality. The fascists represent a dis-connection from our natural goodness and love in the name of perverted masculine power, the rebels in the woods carry the sense of noble resistance, integrity, humanity and connection to the natural world.

Ofelia is placed in an unbearable situation. Her mother is sick and has surrendered to the rule of the evil king. Her father is dead. Human resources are not available, and so archetypal resources appear. Her one saving grace in the external world is Mercedes, the unbroken housekeeper who is in cahoots with the rebels, but is initially completely powerless to help Ofelia.

On crossing the threshold into the mythic realm, Ofelia is told by the Faun that she is really a long-lost princess and that if she can perform three tasks she will reign again. So begins the next stage of our heroine's mythic journey.

The Faun gives Ofelia a book with blank pages that will tell her what to do when the time is right. Ofelia's unconscious is the author of the unfolding inner story and it will project onto the blank pages what her conscious self (or ego) needs to become aware of....


The Tasks

This is a video about the monsters Ofelia meets on her tasks:

Pans Labyrinth Creating the Creatures





The first task takes Ofelia into the roots of a dead fig tree, deep into the bug-infested mud and  slime to find the huge toad that has sapped the tree's life force. She has three magical stones that she must get the toad to swallow in order to somehow get the key that is hidden in it's belly. In order to enter the tree and cross the threshold into a confrontation with  the primitive reptile Ofelia takes off the beautiful new dress and bow for her hair that her mother has made for her to wear as she is presented that night to the local high society of power at dinner with the Captain. The clothing, representing the persona that her mother wants her to present will of course be muddied and tattered by the time she returns - too late for the dinner at which her mother is facing her reptilian host and his toadies.

The Toad is a direct reference to both the classic fairy tale of the princess whose golden ball is rescued from the bottom of the pond by the frog (on condition that she take him with her to the castle, let him sit beside her at table, eat from her plate and sleep on her pillow with her at night,) as well as the mythic serpents and dragons  that carry the slimy, slithery, cold-hearted deadly shadow energies that must be faced and worked with if we are to be initiated psychologically.

Ofelia faces the Toad saying - I am Princess Moana and I am not afraid of you! She tricks him into swallowing the magical stones by holding them with a huge bug in her hand for him to grab by extending out his long sticky tongue. Once the stones are ingested the Toad practically turns inside out - vomiting a giant yellow ball of slime that contains dead and still crawling bugs as well as the key she is seeking.

In the belly of the beast. In the darkness of mud and slime and insects, in the roots of the tree that has been killed by this inhabitant, in the confrontation with what disgusts us - we find the key to self-knowledge, freedom, the return of life to the tree (in this case with a Pan-like horned shape) and entry to the next stage of our journey.

Ofelia's next task involves entering a less slimy realm - this time by using magical chalk to draw a doorway - and confronting a less primitive, but more monstrous creature. In this realm  we find ourselves in hallway surrounded by arches and with chequered stone floors - around the corner we enter the banquet hall covered in food, at which sits the horrific blind humanoid Monster. Paintings on the wall depict this monster as a baby-killer and eater and we see an ominous pile of baby/children's shoes in the corner of the room.

Ofelia's must use the key from the belly of the Toad to open one of three small doorways in the wall behind the Monster and retrieve what lies within. She has strict instructions not to eat anything from the table. On the table in front of the Monster is a plate bearing two eyeballs. he has no eyes, two small holes in his otherwise featureless face that are either nostrils or empty eye sockets, a mouth and skin that hangs from his body as if he had once been very fat but had since lost a lot of weight. It's hands rest beside the plate, fingers coming to grotesque sharp points.

The Faun's three fairies accompany Ofelia on this task and she has instructions to do what they say, but Ofelia correctly trusts her own intuition/impulse and opens a different door with the key than the one the fairies point out to her, and retrieves a beautiful ceremonial dagger.

Now, confident in her own impulses, Ofelia decides the allure of the grapes on the table is too much to resist and, swatting the protesting fairies away like flies, eats two grapes. This wakes up the monster, who turns his hands palm up to reveal eye sockets that he inserts the eyes from his plate into and then holds his hands up to his head to take a look around. It is awake. It is hungry.

The Monster eats two of the fairies on it's bloody-mothed way toward our heroine. Interestingly, because the eyes are in the hands, it cannot see while it is holding onto what it is eating...and ultimately ofelia escapes by the skin of her teeth.

This scene is by far the most disturbing, brilliant and cryptic of the entire film. It took a while, but some of the implied meanings gradually coalesced for me:

Ofelia's greed gets the better of her and she disobeys the instruction not to eat. The Monster slumbers until she eats - but when she does it comes to eat her.

If we are in the inner world of the mythic psyche, then, as in dreams, the Monster is a part of her. The Monster perhaps represents Ofelia's own blind devouring greed, the shadow side of the libidinal impulse. When she succumbs, it wakes up - or rather it is already waking up in her when she decides to eat from it's table - and then it comes to eat her! But it is blind or unconscious, or powerless over the world around it while it is in the act of voracious devouring.

Here we see an allusion to the Bluebeard story in which a young girl is kidnapped by a Pirate and told that she can look in any of th rooms she wants to while he is away, but the room that this key unlocks is off limits. Of course this is the one room she absolutely has to go into and when she does she finds that it contains a giant cauldron filled with blood and chopped up bodies. Of course this gets her in trouble with the Pirate, but it also let's her know  how dire is her situation! This will lead to her being able to respond to it creatively and resourcefully.

We are in the classic mythic territory of the struggle between the persona reality of social conditioning and the maturity that is won through learning to be conscious of the primal archetypal forces and emotional energies within us instead of repressing and denying them as the social order (in this case an overtly fascist one) demands.

Key Story Points

Next comes a torture scene that reminds us of the closeness of the 1940's of Spain to our current times, as well as two very telling aspects of the external story that are pivotal:

1) Following the Faun's advice, Ofelia has put a very baby-like magical mandrake root into a bowl of milk and fed it with two drops of blood from her fingertip - this magical fetish has been placed under her mother's bed to help ensure her recovery from her most recent rough patch in the pregnancy. The Captain finds this putrefying mixture and accepts the mother Carmen's request that she be allowed to deal with it. In this scene Carmen yells at Ofelia - There is no magic, not for you not for me, as she throws the mandrake root on the fire and it writhes and screams like a baby. She goes into labor and dies, leaving the Captain a son. We have echoes here too of Mercedes response to Ofelia that she used to believe in a great many things when she was a girl that she no longer believes in. The trinity of Mercedes, Carmen and Ofelia carry the struggle to be in a real world that is harsh and oppressive. We are reminded that the mythic world is not literally real, Ofelia is not a princess and the real world situation is dire. We are not in Disney territory here.

2) The good Dr. Ferreiro euthanizes the tortured stuttering rebel to put him out of his misery and is executed by Captain Vidal for his trouble. Before that happens he says to Vidal - I cannot obey just like that, just because you tell me to - that is only for men like you to do - before picking up his doctor's bag and walking with dignity out of the barn. Vidal shoots him in the back.

This is a tragedy. Innocence and integrity will die at the hands of evil, but in certain situations that is the only noble recourse available. In the end it is Mercedes who is willing to not only carry a sharp knife tucked under her apron, but to use it when the time is right, who is the death of the "evil king."

In Ophelia's final task she is told to bring her baby brother to the labyrinth, little knowing that the Faun will attempt to persuade her to sacrifice him so as to open the portal that will take her home. The captain is in hot pursuit and enters the scene as she refuses to give up her brother and "shed the blood of an innocent." Vidal shoots her and takes his precious son, but is met by the rebels and the triumphant Mercedes at the entrance to the labyrinth.

Before he dies he tries to get them to participate in his personal mythology of handing down his pocket watch to his son by smashing it at the hour of his death so that he might know "how a real man dies..." The watch was given to him after his own father's death in the same way - and so we get a hint at what lies in the psyche of our villain - but the rebels refuse and shoot him where he stands. Mercedes says - No. He won't even know your name.

The film ends with Mercedes weeping over the body of Ofelia as her blood opens the portal and she is reunited with her mother and father, the Faun and all three fairies, and told that she passed the final test.

As dark as this ending is - the denouement means that the rebels have beaten the fascist Captain and that his son has been saved - he bears the promise of a new life for Spain, he will be raised by the men and women who have retained their humanity in the face of inhuman oppression.

Trauma and Archetypal Resources

To close I want to reference Kalsched's work again. The Inner World of Trauma utilizes several fairy tales and myths to show how the psyche deals archetypally with unbearable experience/trauma. The two that stand out the most for me are Rapunzel and Eros and Psyche.

First the basic idea of the Self Care System:

From about 20 years of clinical observation Kalsched says that in unbearable trauma an archetypal resource will emerge that rescues the innocent "spirit" and removes it to a magical place. This is all very well for the moment, but the Protector archetype is not flexible and wears the dual face of the Jailer that keeps the spirit separate from the real world to protect it form pain. Yet it is in reintegrating with reality that healing and wholeness lie. The archetypal realm/resource is in service of our real lives, but in severe trauma this relationship is often turned on it's head.

I would add that the popular regressive spiritual fascination (as a result of direct trauma, emotional alienation, existential angst , a corrupted society etc) with finding other worlds to escape to, get special guidance from, or see as the underlying more-real-than-real  substratum of our "illusory" world is a subset of this phenomenon - be it via astrology, channnelled aliens, new age interpretations of "enlightenment" or synchronicty, quantum phsyics, ancient prophecy coming true on some numerologically auspicious date etc, or traditional religious ideas of heaven .. (All of which btw can be best understood as contemporary mythic symbols that have been sadly literalized out of their deeper meanings...)

Kalsched asserts that it is through negotiating the process whereby the Jailer/Protector figure relinquishes control and allows the "spirit" or essential self to re-engage with reality and come into mature relationship to struggle that the possibility of wholeness, joy and love emerges.

Once exposed to this idea sufficiently i have found that it is common to many myths and fairy tales and is hidden consciously or unconsciously in films like The Cell ( as difficult as parts of to watch), The Piano, Fearless, and Jacob's Ladder.

Kalsched's revelation holds a powerful clue to spiritual maturity, psychological healing and bringing the mythic out-picturing of the psyche into healthy relationship to reality.

See if you can detect the threads of this idea as well as the resonances with Pan's Labyrinth in these two stories:

Protector/Jailer: The Witch, The Faun/The Captain, Eros

Notice also the repeating motifs of blindness and spiritual inflation and the neccessity of dealing with harsh reality on the other side of the tower, the labyrinth, the crystal palace etc... as well as Pscyhe's three tasks. If all of this grabs you imagination, watch The Piano, then Fearless, then The Cell with these ideas in mind.

All the best
~Julian

Rapunzel

There were once a man and a woman who had long in vain wished for a child. At length the woman hoped that God was about to grant her desire. These people had a little window at the back of their house from which a splendid garden could be seen, which was full of the most beautiful flowers and herbs. It was, however, surrounded by a high wall, and no one dared to go into it because it belonged to an enchantress, who had great power and was dreaded by all the world.

One day the woman was standing by this window and looking down into the garden, when she saw a bed which was planted with the most beautiful rampion - rapunzel, and it looked so fresh and green that she longed for it, and had the greatest desire to eat some. This desire increased every day, and as she knew that she could not get any of it, she quite pined away, and began to look pale and miserable. Then her husband was alarmed, and asked, what ails you, dear wife. Ah, she replied, if I can't eat some of the rampion, which is in the garden behind our house, I shall die.

The man, who loved her, thought, sooner than let your wife die, bring her some of the rampion yourself, let it cost what it will. At twilight, he clambered down over the wall into the garden of the enchantress, hastily clutched a handful of rampion, and took it to his wife. She at once made herself a salad of it, and ate it greedily. It tasted so good to her - so very good, that the next day she longed for it three times as much as before. If he was to have any rest, her husband must once more descend into the garden. In the gloom of evening, therefore, he let himself down again. But when he had clambered down the wall he was terribly afraid, for he saw the enchantress standing before him.

How can you dare, said she with angry look, descend into my garden and steal my rampion like a thief. You shall suffer for it. Ah, answered he, let mercy take the place of justice, I only made up my mind to do it out of necessity. My wife saw your rampion from the window, and felt such a longing for it that she would have died if she had not got some to eat. Then the enchantress allowed her anger to be softened, and said to him, if the case be as you say, I will allow you to take away with you as much rampion as you will, only I make one condition, you must give me the child which your wife will bring into the world. It shall be well treated, and I will care for it like a mother.

The man in his terror consented to everything, and when the woman was brought to bed, the enchantress appeared at once, gave the child the name of rapunzel, and took it away with her. Rapunzel grew into the most beautiful child under the sun. When she was twelve years old, the enchantress shut her into a tower, which lay in a forest, and had neither stairs nor door, but quite at the top was a little window. When the enchantress wanted to go in, she placed herself beneath it and cried, rapunzel, rapunzel, let down your hair to me.

Rapunzel had magnificent long hair, fine as spun gold, and when she heard the voice of the enchantress she unfastened her braided tresses, wound them round one of the hooks of the window above, and then the hair fell twenty ells down, and the enchantress climbed up by it. After a year or two, it came to pass that the king's son rode through the forest and passed by the tower.

Then he heard a song, which was so charming that he stood still and listened. This was rapunzel, who in her solitude passed her time in letting her sweet voice resound. The king's son wanted to climb up to her, and looked for the door of the tower, but none was to be found. He rode home, but the singing had so deeply touched his heart, that every day he went out into the forest and listened to it.

Once when he was thus standing behind a tree, he saw that an enchantress came there, and he heard how she cried, rapunzel, rapunzel, let down your hair. Then rapunzel let down the braids of her hair, and the enchantress climbed up to her. If that is the ladder by which one mounts, I too will try my fortune, said he, and the next day when it began to grow dark, he went to the tower and cried, rapunzel, rapunzel, let down your hair. Immediately the hair fell down and the king's son climbed up.

At first rapunzel was terribly frightened when a man, such as her eyes had never yet beheld, came to her. But the king's son began to talk to her quite like a friend, and told her that his heart had been so stirred that it had let him have no rest, and he had been forced to see her. Then rapunzel lost her fear, and when he asked her if she would take him for her husband, and she saw that he was young and handsome, she thought, he will love me more than old dame gothel does. And she said yes, and laid her hand in his. She said, I will willingly go away with you, but I do not know how to get down.

Bring with you a skein of silk every time that you come, and I will weave a ladder with it, and when that is ready I will descend, and you will take me on your horse. They agreed that until that time he should come to her every evening, for the old woman came by day. The enchantress remarked nothing of this, until once rapunzel said to her, tell me, dame gothel, how it happens that you are so much heavier for me to draw up than the young king's son - he is with me in a moment. Ah.

You wicked child, cried the enchantress. What do I hear you say. I thought I had separated you from all the world, and yet you have deceived me. In her anger she clutched rapunzel's beautiful tresses, wrapped them twice round her left hand, seized a pair of scissors with the right, and snip, snap, they were cut off, and the lovely braids lay on the ground. And she was so pitiless that she took poor rapunzel into a desert where she had to live in great grief and misery.

On the same day that she cast out rapunzel, however, the enchantress fastened the braids of hair, which she had cut off, to the hook of the window, and when the king's son came and cried, rapunzel, rapunzel, let down your hair, she let the hair down. The king's son ascended, but instead of finding his dearest rapunzel, he found the enchantress, who gazed at him with wicked and venomous looks. Aha, she cried mockingly, you would fetch your dearest, but the beautiful bird sits no longer singing in the nest. The cat has got it, and will scratch out your eyes as well.

Rapunzel is lost to you. You will never see her again. The king's son was beside himself with pain, and in his despair he leapt down from the tower. He escaped with his life, but the thorns into which he fell pierced his eyes. Then he wandered quite blind about the forest, ate nothing but roots and berries, and did naught but lament and weep over the loss of his dearest wife. Thus he roamed about in misery for some years, and at length came to the desert where rapunzel, with the twins to which she had given birth, a boy and a girl, lived in wretchedness.

He heard a voice, and it seemed so familiar to him that he went towards it, and when he approached, rapunzel knew him and fell on his neck and wept. Two of her tears wetted his eyes and they grew clear again, and he could see with them as before. He led her to his kingdom where he was joyfully received, and they lived for a long time afterwards, happy and contented.


Eros and Psyche

The goddess Aphrodite (in Roman mythology, Venus), jealous of the beauty of a mortal woman named Psyche, asked her son Eros (in Roman mythology, Cupid) to use his golden arrows to cause Psyche to fall in love with the ugliest man on earth. Eros agreed but then fell in love with Psyche on his own, or by accidentally pricking himself with a golden arrow.

When all continued to admire and praise Psyche's beauty but none desired her as a wife, Psyche's parents consulted an oracle which told them to leave Psyche on the nearest mountain, for her beauty was so great that she was meant for a god. So it was done. But then Zephyrus, the west wind, carried Psyche away to a fair valley and a magnificent palace where she was attended by invisible servants until night fell and in the darkness of night the promised bridegroom arrived and the marriage was consummated. Eros visited her every night and they made sweet love; he demanded only that she never light any lamps because he did not want her to know who he was.

Eros even allowed Zephyrus to take Psyche back to her sisters and bring all three down to the palace during the day, only warning that Psyche should not listen to any argument that she should try to discover his true form. The two jealous sisters told Psyche, then pregnant with Eros' child, that rumor was that she had married a great and terrible serpent who would devour her and her unborn child when her time came for it to be fed. They urged Psyche to conceal a knife and oil lamp in the bedchamber, to wait till her husband was asleep, and then to light the lamp and slay him at once if it was as they said. Psyche sadly followed their advice. In the light of the lamp Psyche recognized the fair form on the bed as the god Eros himself, and cursing her folly, attempted to kill herself with the knife she'd intended to use to kill her lover. However, she dropped the knife, and her spirits were raised as she gazed on the beautiful young god. She curiously examined his golden arrows, and accidentally pricked herself with them, and was consumed with desire for her husband. She began to kiss him, but as she did, a drop of oil fell from Psyche's lamp and onto Eros' chest and he awoke. He flew away, but she caught his ankle and was carried with him until her muscles gave out, and she fell to the ground, sick at heart.

Psyche Opening the Golden Box, by John William Waterhouse
Psyche Opening the Golden Box, by John William Waterhouse

The god Pan, who was nearby, advised Psyche to seek to regain Eros' love through service.

Psyche then found herself in the city where one of her jealous, elder sisters lived. She told her what had happened, then tricked her sister into believing that Eros had chosen her as a wife instead. She later met the other sister and deceived her likewise. Each returned to the top of the peak and jumped down eagerly, but Zephyrus did not bear them and they fell to their deaths at the base of the mountain.

Psyche searched far and wide for her lover, finally stumbling into a temple to Demeter (in Roman mythology, Ceres) where all was in slovenly disarray. As Psyche was sorting and clearing, Demeter appeared, but refused any help but advice, saying Psyche must call directly on Aphrodite, the jealous shrew that caused all the problems in the first place. Psyche next called on Hera (in Roman mythology, Juno) in her temple, but Hera, superior as always, said the same. So Psyche found a temple to Aphrodite and entered it. Aphrodite ordered Psyche to separate all the grains in a large basket of mixed kinds before nightfall. An ant took pity on Psyche and with its ant companions separated the grains for her.

Psyche Opening the Door into Cupid's Garden, by John William Waterhouse
Psyche Opening the Door into Cupid's Garden, by John William Waterhouse

Aphrodite was outraged at her success and told her to go to a field where golden sheep grazed and get some golden wool. A river-god told Psyche that the sheep were vicious and strong and would kill her, but if she waited until noontime, the sheep would go to the shade on the other side of the field and sleep; she could pick the wool that stuck to the branches and bark of the trees. Aphrodite next asked for water from the Styx and Cocytus flowing from a cleft that was impossible for a mortal to attain and was also guarded by great serpents. This time an eagle performed the task for Psyche. Aphrodite, outraged at Psyche's survival, claimed that the stress of caring for her son, made depressed and ill as a result of Psyche's unfaithfulness, had caused her to lose some of her beauty. Psyche was to go to the Underworld and ask Persephone, the queen of the Underworld, for a bit of her beauty in a box that Aphrodite gave to Psyche. Psyche decided that the quickest way to the Underworld would be to throw herself off some high place and die and so she climbed to the top of a tower. But the tower itself spoke to her and told her the route through Tanaerum that would allow her to enter the Underworld alive and return again, as well as telling her how to get by Cerberus by throwing him a sop and Charon by paying him an obol, how to avoid other dangers on the way there and back, and most importantly to eat of no food whatsoever; for otherwise she would dwell forever in the Underworld. Psyche followed the orders explicitly and ate nothing while beneath the earth.

However when Psyche had got out of the Underworld, she decided to open the box and take a little bit of the beauty for herself. Inside, she could see no beauty; instead an infernal sleep arose from the box and overcame her. Eros, who had forgiven Psyche, flew to her, wiped the sleep from her face, put it back in the box, and sent her back on her way. Then Eros flew to Mount Olympus and begged Zeus to aid them. Zeus called a full and formal council of the gods, and declared it was his will that Eros might marry Psyche. Zeus then had Psyche fetched to Mount Olympus, and gave her a drink made from Ambrosia, granting her immortality. Although some say their daughter was named Bliss, and some say she was named Delight (in Roman mythology she was named Volupta, which can mean either), the meaning of the name was intended to be joyful. Begrudgingly, Aphrodite and Psyche forgave each other.


Access_public Access: Public 54 Comments Print Send views (10,761)  
adam : revolution
about 1 hour later
adam said

julian - are you telling me it’s not all really real???

and that these myths refer to psychological and spiritual dynamics purely within the bodymind?

i’m devastated. and hurt. more than hurt - i’m wounded…

i’m not sure how i can go on now…

i need to grieve. i just need some space. i don’t know when i’ll be back…

Julian : integral healer
about 2 hours later
Julian said

adam ya punk ass!

good to see you welcome back!

adam : revolution
about 2 hours later
adam said

you’re going to tell me next there isn’t any such thing as a christian god… and that integral islam/christianity/s&m is just word games about mind games

you’re no fun at all…

now i’m going to have to think for myself.

killjoy.

Julian : integral healer
about 4 hours later
Julian said

perhaps….

but more likely i'l point out that all of this mythic and fasiry tale material is intensely powerful - but that power diminishes more and more the more literal and supersitious and oversimplified it it is made….

the archetypal realm is powerfully real, but only in it's own way and only in healthy relationship to the place that really matters - our real life experience as human beings in this mortal world…

also it requires what i think of as transrational cognition to interpret it acurately and there is little that is vague or fuzzy about it……

adam : revolution
about 4 hours later
adam said

what i really love about magical mythical stories is the way they go in fairly literally as rich beautiful spellbinding tales when heard as a child (depending on stage of development) but are then available for recall as metaphor (ideally) in later life and can be enlisted as powerful archetypal inspiration, or warnings, in guiding action. they seem to recapitulate the “wisdom” of the ages, to provide a connection to the perpetual human experience of the ages (which looks likely to end in the near future unless we realise the difference culturally between imagined reality and actual reality).

i'd like to see some newly written myths which incorporate the latest psychological and consciousness findings, nlp, self-esteem, world consciousness etc. not p.c. tosh, but really good vivid writing to fire a young child's imagination (and give them bad dreams probably!).

what i would call “real fiction” or 'reality fiction” - to program in a really powerful trail of breadcrumbs to guide a child through the dark night of the human soul on a hero's journey past the fisher king to the holy grail of their own potential. (to gratuitously mush together several disparate story elements - haven't quite got the hang of this writing lark yet…)

oh - wait a minute - we've already got those books - it's the harry potter series! phew! that's free human life saved then!

Julian : integral healer
about 4 hours later
Julian said

yes i agree adam.

hmmm i wonder if the wachowski's were hoping that the matrix series would be that.

btw wilber and cornel west doing commentary on all three movies in the special edition package is pretty excellent!

Julian : integral healer
about 5 hours later
Julian said

hey adam what did you mean by “nip”?

Daate : Cheerio
about 6 hours later
Daate said

just re-read this, and excuse the long rambly post…

this is an awesome review julian…..

and i like elektroglide's idea about a contemporary hero's journey…..

thought this was interesting, since we're on the topic of the psychic self-care system—i'm reading kalsched's book (which i love) and was interested to see his critique of clarissa pinkola estes's work on page 111. he mentions that it can be therapeutically dangerous to take a  view of the psychic predator or “trickster” as an innate psychic force in all of us. he believes de-linking it from a natural reaction to trauma undermines therapeutic possibilities.

the fundamental differences between being trained as a psychologist, particularly a Jungian analyst, and an SE practitioner strike me here. it's funny, till i read kalsched i wasn't aware that anyone thinks of the protector simultaneously as a jailer, but it makes sense. i have been taught to see it as duplicitous, yes, and certainly as a force to be reckoned with and eventually released; but i have also been taught to hold this force in highest respect. I had not taken as pathologized a view of it as kalsched seems to, but I could just be failing to understand him.

what i like about estes's work is that she normalizes rather than pathologizes this force which, for someone plagued with internal archetypal figures that are just coming into consciousness, is helpful in releasing them. (trust me.) i think kalsched's book was written primarliy for clinicians, while i believe estes's work was meant more for the layman. estes's work seems to directly help readers develop healthier alignment with their intuition. here she's right in alignment with SE—maybe not its philosophy, but in the practical way you might work with a client. SE trains us to help a person develop healthy self-protectiveness and boundaries, by which route they can naturally relinquish that self-sabotaging psychic predator—after all, his primary function is protection of the human being, and until a person is integrated the protector springs up out of the cloudiness of dissociation and denial to ward off potential dangers (which in many cases equals ANY external experience at all—so yes, i guess i do get kalsched's point, but still see it slightly differently.) and of course, i speak here as well about what methods, in therapy, have helped me.

I love pan's labyrinth! it touched me deeply, as i recognized myself (as i think many people do) in Ofelia. especially the very simple part at the end after her mother dies, all external hope seems to be lost, (i think Mercedes is gone too), Ofelia's sitting in her room and the Faun appears, charging her with the task of going to get her brother—and when she sees the Faun she leaps up in relief. i think this part captures perfectly how we feel when, in the midst of despair, a familiar figure emerges, even if it comes from within. :) love it.

Balder : Kosmonaut
about 9 hours later
Balder said

Wow, Julian.  A wonderfully detailed, psychologically and mythologically astute review. 

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I did watch the Youtube video clip.  I have to say:  I really hated that scene with the man getting his face smashed in.  The brutality of it just went right through me for some reason.  I haven't cried, but I actually felt on the verge of it for a moment as the image hung in my mind afterwards. 

I suppose I am in a more vulnerable place this evening than usual.  I've seen lots of horror flicks, especially back in the day.  But watching that just plain hurt.

Daate : Cheerio
about 9 hours later
Daate said

i know what you mean, balder….i'm not good with torture scenes (or violence) either….it's a testament to how much i loved the movie and resonated with its psychological aspects that i got through (most of the violent scenes with my face smashed into my friend's shoulder.)

adam : revolution
about 11 hours later
adam said

j

haha - i wrote n-l-p not n-i-p!

as in neuro-lingustic programming.

there already are fiction works which explicitly use nlp, but i haven't found any good ones yet. i know from experience how powerful (even as adults) allegorical story telling can be, especially when combined with highly receptive states of consciousness, and judicious use of nlp could make it even more powerful.

does that make lt ciearer? ; )

as for neo et al, whether or not the wachowski's intended the matrix trilogy to be allegorical and/or mythical, i think they function partly as such (although i rate the first one highly, i think the quality of the other two gets progressively worse). there is certainly archetype and mythical content a-plenty, and i think the first movie captures some of my favourite psychological and ethical dynamics brilliantly. there is definitely a major hero's journey going on as well. a great comic. now i wanna hear that commentary…

“you have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it…”

the system - cultural delusion. religion. irrational positions. depending on your perspective of course ; )

“dodge this”

the bullet is definitely reality ha ha

“get up trinity”

a good one for world action. hmmm. it's a rich movie, one of my faves.

i find science fiction generally to be a splendid vehicle for allegory. i remember being really astounded (quite eery actually) when i was reading “ender's game” by orson scott card a decade or so ago, how many non-standard concepts contained within it i had been ruminating in the months previously. it's because myth, fairy tale and science fiction are metaphorical abstractions that they go into the psyche so well, as metaphor is so important to the human thinking process.

i seem to remember (?) asking you about myth and who you recommended as an author on the subject, but this is as good an exposition as i need for now, and you've contextualised it in a way i relate to strongly. nice one.

Julian : integral healer
about 20 hours later
Julian said

whoa balder are you saying i included the most violent scene in the movie in one of the above youtube clips?

didn't mean to - i generally warn people about that scene - it's about 14 minutes in and worth looking away if you are sensitive.

it does set up the absolute brutality of our villain and i think we need pretty strong cause to be able to plausibly buy ofelia's bifurcated dissociation from reality….

Julian : integral healer
about 20 hours later
Julian said

ok ok- i see it - i skipped over that because i was wanting something that showed the classic 3 tasks….. i'll replace it - it's really overkill.

thanks

Balder : Kosmonaut
about 20 hours later
Balder said

Literally overkill!


I wasn't asking you to take it off, since it's probably integral to the story, as you say.  It just caught me by surprise.  Although it's just a fictional movie scene, it impacted me the same way some of those Al Qaeda execution clips did – a really visceral response.

Julian : integral healer
about 20 hours later
Julian said

no it's too much and will turn people off a film that is otherwise so extraordinary.

check out the new clip i replaced it with - i think you'll dig it - and no cgi collapsing faces!

daate - yea those are very astute distinctions you are makinf between lvine's work and kalsched's - have you watched slingblade and fearless - the two films levine reccommends? i believe he was a consultant on fearless so you see his model of trauma recovery very clearly through the movie.

i actually think about trauma explicitly through the lens of these two theorist/clinicians….

levine's work is soooo bio-physiologically based ya know? he is not really interested in the depth component of the psyche. he even says tat it dosn't matter if you ever know what did or didn't happen to you - because it's all about restoring the homeostatic balance of the nervous system and learning how to self-regulate again - period.

this is very pragmatic and liberating, but bot entirely satisfying for me.

kalsched brings not only the jungian depth, but also the object relations piece and a really psychoanalytic discussion of the transference - all of which i find invaluable.

i agree kalsched is writing for clinicians and levine a little bit more for laypeople…

also i think as you continue you may find that klalsced does emphasize honoring and thanking the protector figure as part of helping it to relinquish it's jailer role - perhaps by giving it something else to do - shades of voice dialog a la hal and sidra stone and genp roshis “big mind”…

yea that moment in the film strikes me as having an interesting subtext - she is so happy to see the fauna nd yet in a way the faun is manipulating her and we are unsure of his true colors - fascinating and nuanced stuff!

Julian : integral healer
about 20 hours later
Julian said

adam you've inspired me to watch the matrix films again and do a long piece on them.

wilber and west actually do a marvelous job teasing out the deeper elements of what the wachowskis are trying to do in the 2nd and 3rd movies - much maligned as they are - there is extraordinary vision there - they are ambitously trying to do a whole review of world philosophy and go beyond the simplistic good vs evil heroic story that the first movie starts with - they deconstruct the saviour archetype and bring in a lot of existentialist and humanist positions……

you might also like that special edition with the ken and cornell commentary because on an adjacent track - for all three movies - there are a couple critics who thought the entire series was absolute shite explaining why!

adam : revolution
about 21 hours later
adam said

i'll check out the commentary. i haven't watched 2&3 anywhere near as much, simply because they don't work as well as films i.m.o., and certainly not in context as a trilogy with the first one. sounds like the concepting was more considered than the screenplay…

so maybe a revisit is in order! now i think about it, the scene in 3 where blind neo and trinity go above the clouds (trinity's first time ever) and the dynamics of that whole final scene etc have got me wondering.

there may be lots of meaning i haven't seen, although i was never as keen on art which needed separate translation by the artist or a critic to understand the value. tarantino's work (to use a prosaic example) is full of in-jokes, many of which i am not privy to, so i suspect there is more value for someone who shares his references. peter and the wolf just sprang to mind as well! helps if you know the story!

i'd like to hear the critical commentary! sounds funny. good call…

i'm keeping chipping away on the symposium feedback, balder's being a most helpful dude, lots more to come.

Daate : Cheerio
about 21 hours later
Daate said

yes julian i agree, the purely physiological component doesn't work for me either—-it might help with shock trauma, but not with developmental trauma, in which the psyche is so interwoven and literally built around freezes in the nervous system that they are surely worth looking at with depth. kalsched's book has already helped me quite a bit; for me i think a synthesis of his and of levine's work is what strikes me as the most helpful.
 
if “fearless” is the movie with jeff bridges and the plane crash, no, i haven't seen it—though i plan to. again plane crashes are about shock trauma, very different from developmental. and i saw slingblade a long time ago.

it's hard sometimes getting other SE therapists to see the importance of a person's “story.” it's a source of frustration for me actually. while in training, i'm actively trying to build a practice philosophy which will also address the long-term effects of psychological conditioning.

little Ofelia, for instance, was already well-practiced in retreating to “fairyland” even before she met the Faun, which reveals that there was already some developmental trauma and that her spirit was already familiar with a mythic landscape; her archetypal defenses were primed and waiting in the wings, should her circumstances get any worse—and when they did, the defenses took center stage and became her literal guides.

j—i'd love to see you do a piece on the matrix.

Jim : artist, etc.
1 day later
Jim said

Excellent review/article, Julian, as is your previous review of Pan's Labyrinth, a film that I saw for the first time last weekend. I absolutely loved the film and was very deeply moved by it. I needed a lot of Kleenex!

There is nothing I could add to your excellent analysis, but I do want to make a comment about the ontology of the psyche. I know (from decades around spiritually/integrally/transpersonally oriented people like myself) that some such people seem to think that whenever anyone says or implies that the kinds of realms that Ofelia encounters in Pan's Labyrinth are psychological in nature, they are somehow “reducing” these realms to being “just” psychological.

To think that way is to reduce the psychological and the psyche. When we say that intrapsychic realms are in fact intrapsychic, meaning that they don't exist in what philosophers call a mind-independent world, we are not reducing or devaluing them in the least. The psyche and everything we can experience within it, including all the inner experiences that Ofelia has, are “really real” as intrapsychic experiences, but the belief that they are real in a mind-independent way lacks the support of reasons and evidence. The mere fact that I and Ofelia and many others can experience such worlds, sometimes to the point of feeling convinced that such worlds exist in a mind-independent way, is not evidence of anything other than our credulity and the awesomeness of the human mind and brain.

Inside our skulls are what, as far as we know, are the most complex, highly evolved structures in the universe. The human brain has an estimated 100 billion neurons and 100 trillion connections between neurons or synapses. If one were to count these connections at the rate of one per second, it would take thirty two million years to count them all. It’s been calculated that the number of possible states a human brain can have exceeds the number of elementary particles in the known universe.

Is it possible that worlds such as the one encountered by Ofelia are real in a mind-independent way? Of course it’s possible, but possibility is not probability.

Jim

Julian : integral healer
1 day later
Julian said

perfectly stated jim.

couldn't agree more - especially with the point about it actually being an impoverished view of the powerful reality of the psyche to think that the words “only” or “just” belong in front of  adescription of something intrapsychic.

again it is about a culture at odds with interiority and so needing to literalize and externalize everything….

Julian : integral healer
1 day later
Julian said

has anyone here seen any of the other movies?

yes daate, fearless is the plane crash one. yea i hear you it is much easier to write a story around shock trauma than developmental trauma.

the cell is pretty brutal in places but does an amazing job of going into the intrapsychic dynamics of a killer - his inner child, confused adult and out of control protector/jailer are all represented in a powerfully realized inner world/dream landscape and we see a harrowing but compassionate delineation of his story…… not fot eh faint of heart but an amazing companion piece to the kalsched book - as well as an aextraordinary ground-breaking work of heart (about 1/3 of the time)

Julian : integral healer
1 day later
Julian said

any comments on eros and psyche and rapunzel? see the similarities in the arc of the story?

the piano is an amazing example of the same dynamics - anyone get what i mean?

jonny bardo : imagicosmologist
2 days later
jonny bardo said

Excellent unpacking, Julian–from the psychological perspective. But that is pretty much all I read in your interpretation, which is what I was saying here.

It is not an “impoverished view of the powerful reality of the psyche” to point out the reductionism of saying–as you are–that “A really means B” with no other interpretations possible or relevant. Perhaps I should replace “reductionist” with “monological,” for what I see you doing is interpreting Pan's Labyrinth through a single, albeit sophisticated, perspective, not unlike when a psychiatrist “just” sees a set of symptoms as a DSM category, or a psychoanalyst “only” sees a set of symptoms as an oedipal complex. Etc. There are other possible perspectives, such as the girl's fantasies as spiritual journey or bardo experience with a kind of awakening at the end; or we could look at the socio-political elements. And so on.

As you bring up Rapunzel, I would recommend William Irwin Thompson's excellent discussion of that tale in his Imaginary Landscape where he interprets it from multiple perspectives: literal, structural, anthropological, and cosmological:

“The first level is the literal level of the story that the fairy tale narrates. The second level is the structural level in which we notice that there are patterns in the narration, but we do not rush to organize these patterns into an interpretive schema, be it Freudian or Marxian. The third level is the anthropological level in which we recognize that the narration is telling more than one story, that something else is going on in the description of psychological and sociological transformations. The fourth level is the cosmological level in which one realizes that the story is also about the setting up of an order that is not simply familial or societal, but planetary; that, in fact, the story is one of the setting up of a world system with its new relationships between the sexes, its new societal organization, and its new arrangements of the planets in the solar system. ”

Now this is a prelude to Thompson's discussion of a specific fairy tale–Rapunzel–but it applies in general for any tale or myth. It is tempting to blithely equate his levels with, say, Wilberian levels of consciousness–but Thompson's map is different and it simply doesn't work.

Notice how Thompson is not simply talking about literal vs. psychological/metaphoric. His approach is more, dare I say, multi-dimensional. When I criticize your approach as being monological or reductionist I am saying that it is metaphoric–“A really means B”–rather than multi-dimensional–“A means B in this context (or from this perspectival interpretation), C in this context, D in this context, etc.” Thus, in this context, multi-dimensional means multi-perspectival–with no perspective being final or complete, and often without a clear linear progression to higher and better perspectives, but more of a kaleidoscope.

jonny bardo : imagicosmologist
2 days later
jonny bardo said

p.s. This post was off the cuff in reply to your review. I will explore and expand some of these ideas on my blog (partially in reply to your response to my post on “Beyond Atheism”) shortly.

Julian : integral healer
2 days later
Julian said

very nicely said johnny.

well i went into the socio-political in my first piece on the movie which you may not have seen yet.

i love the film because of it's mutli-dimensional quality - it is about the ordinary world and it's socio-political struggle, it is about the intra-psychic world as a response to that struggle in relationship the a coming of age story.

not sure what you think is left out here besides the possibility that the fairy tale world is “real” in some objective way - which is a perspective that i think is sophomoric.

but feel free to write your own review and include that perspective and i will come and check it out!

yes i know the thompson book - it's a lot of fun!

Julian : integral healer
2 days later
Julian said

btw - i think there is a crucial difference between monological and hermeneutically acurate.

i am sure you are familiar with wilber's 3 modes of knowing and 3 strands of science stuff.

remember the whole bit about communities of the adequate and that hamlet really isn't about a picnic in the country?

in this case we are in the eye of mind. and the interpretatioon of the material is possible by looking at what is being referenced viz a vis socio-political, mythological, psychological themes - they are tied together in an elegant wasy and consciously or unconsciously are referring to eachother and to this girls struggle to become a young woman in unbearable circumstances.

there are more and less accurate interpretations of art and literature and being open to all interpretations is not integral it's relativistic and ironically results in the flatland it tries to avoid.

nothin worng with the DSM btw - do you have something against accurate psychological diagnosis? surely you don't think psychotics should be treated as mystics?

oh and regarding bardo states - check out jacob's ladder if you haven't already - that film has a gorgeous bardo process clearly delineated through it's unfolding - very cool!

jonny bardo : imagicosmologist
2 days later
jonny bardo said

We run into all sorts of problems when we say things like “hermeneutically accurate,” because the phrase implies that there is one correct interpretation–which is exactly my point.

I am not saying that all interpretations are valid, but nor am I placing one interpretive model on top as the most integral. The kind of multi-dimensionality I am talking about implies an open-endedness so that we don't end up with a final and complete theory of everything through which we can explain everything. This approach only works, imo, within the Gebserian rational structure, which is why I am beginning to think that Wilber's AQAL approach is more of a precursor to than an outgrowth of the Gebserian integral structure, a transition if you will. But that's another topic.

The DSM is a useful tool but, like any tool or model, has its limitations. This famous adage is relevant “If your only tool is a hammer then everything begins to look like a nail.” If your only toolbox is the DSM then everything looks like a psychological disorder. And let us not forget that the DSM is always changing–V is due out sometime in the next few years–and is really a reflection of current cultural assumptions. So the notion of “accurate psychological diagnosis” is similar to the notion of “hermeneutical accuracy”–both must be placed within a larger context, one that is multi-dimensional, multi-perspectival, and in a constant state of flux.

I've seen Jacob's Ladder a few times and love it. I bawl every time I see it! Some of the things Danny Aiello's character says are absolutely exquisite.

Julian : integral healer
2 days later
Julian said

also: for what it is worth -

the above is an in-depth article about the psychological function of myth-making specifically with regard to trauma and archetypal resource a la kalshced who is coming from a campbellian/jungian perspective.

his book is based on 20 years of clinical experience and theory. their work speaks for itself in it's depth and span…..

sure there are other aspects to consider, but this is beautiful, elegant, intelligent and rings incredibly true to me.

i am applying his powerful analsis and model to del toro's magnificent piece of moviemaking thatt illustartes the model beautifully.

given that we live in a world caught spiritually between kitschy new age age magic literalism and fundamentalist religious mythic literalism - an intellaectual, psychological and spiritual call to deeper levels of metaphoric, symbolic, formal operations and vision logic development is essential before any realistic movement toward integral consciousness can occur.

the fatc that so many who identify as integral have yet to develop this kind of integrated cognition with their spirituality seems like a big blind spot to me…

just relieve me for a moment here JB - you don't think that there reallly is an objectively real world we can go to where frogs have golden keys in their bellies and blind monstrous baby-eaters come afte us if we disobey the rules?

you do get that it is an honoring of the intra-psychic realms to put them in their proper context and understand their function and a dishonoring of that function and proper place to incorrrectly perceive the intra-psychic realms as having objective reality - and that it is precisely this misperception that is correctly understood as mental illness?

Julian : integral healer
2 days later
Julian said

hey JB let's just bond on the fact that we both love jacob's ladder!

what are some of your other favorites?

it's probably in my top 10 of all time:

(in no order)

pan's labyrinth
jacob's ladder
the fountain
blade runner
apocalypse now
the age of innocence
the thin red line
the new world
wings of desire
the piano

adam : revolution
2 days later
adam said

“surely you don't think psychotics should be treated as mystics?”

there is an argument that mysticism constitutes a form of psychosis

this is related to a blog i'll be posting shortly

psychosis can be described as lying on a continuum of consciousness, with severe loss of contact with reality in its more extreme manifestations, and including disorganized thinking, delusions, hallucinations, and lack of insight into the foregoing as possible symptoms at various stages.

at the other end of this particular continuum would lie a firm grasp on objective reality as characterised by a high level of  critical thinking and rational thought processes. while i am not qualified to “diagnose, treat, or cure” psychosis, the word has been increasingly coming to mind in seeing some recent  blogs on this site, and on occasion when people's thinking betrays such a profound break with any rational connection with reality, i struggle to find other words to describe what i am reading/seeing, even when psychosis is qualified with prefacing words such as “selective” and “voluntary”…

Julian : integral healer
3 days later
Julian said

adam - good to have you in the mix - now we have three voices along a continuum…..

jonny bardo : imagicosmologist
3 days later
jonny bardo said

Actually, I have a remarkable piece of chalk that opens up portals to other dimensions…ha ha, never fear Julian, I don't think such things are “literal truth”. Another way of phrasing what I am trying to express is that mythic art, true myth–not simply a story of the Wilberian mythic level–is multi-faceted, with numerous levels of meaning and application. In other words, there isn't merely a single “proper context”–a true psychological interpretation. Art that is strictly metaphorical (“A = B”) is less potent than art that is multi-dimensional, imo. But again, I will elaborate on my blog shortly.

As for movies, nice selection–I enjoyed all of those, some are even among my all-time favorites. I list a bunch of movies on my profile, but here are a few that come most readily to mind:

Excalibur
Thin Red Line
Renegade
Annie Hall
Jacob's Ladder
Last Temptation of Christ
Zardoz
The Dark Crystal
The Natural
The Emerald Forest
The Truman Show

I'm still digesting the Fountain and Pan's Labyrinth, having just seen them. Both were very impressive to say the least.

Julian : integral healer
3 days later
Julian said

i agree jb - that's why i did a multi-dimensional analysis of pan's labyrinth in two parts that covered the plotline, socio-political theme, hero's journey mythology a  la the master joseph Campbell, and a jungian perspective on the mythic psyche as a way to deal with unbearable trauma - with multiple references to other films, myth and fairy tale….

not sure what you think is missing? - perhaps you will do a piece on the film of your own that round it out sufficiently for you….  i have a feeling that no matter what i wrote you would allude to something lacking to make it “more integral,” but the specifics would not be forthcoming.

yes there are multiple levels of meaning, as i dutifully unfolded in a way  that is revelatory for me and drawing on multiple sources - but in all good art there is something the artist is saying consciously or unconsciously that can be interpreted more or less accurately. of course there may be some minor variation - or even a couple big variables that could go a couple ways - but art does not have multiple interpretations - multiple levels that arrive at one or two good interpretations, but not multiple completely different meanings. if that were the case how would one possibly grade an academic paper on literature, dream interpretation, sculpture etc…?

oh big mistake on my part - i left out the last temptation! not sure which one that would replace, but as has to be in my top ten!

yea i love that whole truman type genre too - the kaufman films are brilliant and i think the recent film with will ferrel, maggie gyllenhaal and emma thompson was a good addition to that pomo narrative category…

Julian : integral healer
3 days later
Julian said

adamski

i hear you on the prevalence of pre trans confusion on zaadz.

i know that you don';t think there is a trans - and in many ways i am sympathetic to your point of view.

however for me the above interpretation of pan's lab is an excercise in transrational, postconventional cognition, intuition etc informed by psychological and mythological nuances that are not availabel to pure rational consciousness - i think of it as high order formop and vision logic.

i also have experienced deep meditative states of non-dual awareness that do enfold ratiionality within a larger embrace that recognizes the unity of opposites in a non-regressive, non-delusional way and that requires no dissociation or psychotic fantasy.

the fact that this kind of grounded mysticism is in short supply has more to do with the lack of serious practice and the abundance of silly new age fantasy amongst people who have learned to toss integral and non-dual language around….

adam : revolution